Curse

Fril Estelin · May 02, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Not sure if it should be in the Lore subforum, but quite funny story:

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cf...in-a-Name.html

Quote:

Jess Lebow's MMO Story Hour: What’s in a Name?
Every Wednesday, this novelist and former writer for Wizards of the Coast, Magic the Gathering, Guild Wars, Pirates of the Burning Sea and more will check in with his look at stories in MMOs.

I remember, as a young man, my grandmother telling me that there are two things you never want to see being made: sausages and laws. At the time, I was too young to understand what she meant. I didn’t yet know how government worked, and sausages, well, let’s just say eventually I was enlightened.

I have tried to explain to my grandmother what it is I do for a living, and each time she smiles and nods, as if she’s had an epiphany and now clearly and truly knows the details of my profession. I’m certain that she really does not know, nor will she ever really understand the creation process of an MMO. And perhaps that’s good. Because grandma, if you’re reading this, there are a few other things you need to add to your list.

Let me tell you a story:

When I started working on Guild Wars, all we really had was a central lobby and one and a half complete missions. Basically there was enough there to prove that the game was fun to play, but on a very, very small scale. As the game started to grow and more of the pieces fell into place, the more the world took on a life of its own. There began to be choices you could make, different characters to play, and new locations to explore.

It was fun, watching the world grow and expand. And at the very beginning, I was able to completely scour every square inch of the game on a daily basis.

When our first fully arted town showed up, I decided it was time to give it a name, place it firmly in the world and begin the process of developing lore around it and the people who lived there. So I started tinkering with different names and doing a little research, just trying to get the creative juices moving.

While poking around online I came across a cool little website about model trains. In one article, the guy was ranting about how people who build replica towns for their train sets often name them after family members. He was just furious that the realism wasn’t being preserved, because, come on, model trains are a very serious business, and finding out that the next stop on the line is Peggy Sueville just ruins the fun for everyone.

The author launched into a dissertation about how real towns came to be called what they are. He pointed out that the physical features of a particular piece of land often influenced the naming of towns founded in that area. He talked about immigrants and different languages, pointed out real-life examples of how town names were constructed. He even included a couple of columns, one of translated words from a host of different languages and one of appropriate suffixes. He then included a formula for how one might put words from the respective columns together to create simple, respectable town names based on who lived there and its physical features.

I decided to try out his system, so I took another stroll through the town. There were quaint little houses and a windmill. There were short, rolling hills and a couple of fields. There were all sort of things that might set this town apart from any other we would be making, but by far the dominant feature was that this particular village was located beside a very nice little lake.

That was it. I had my name. It was the City by the Lake. All I had to do now was plug it into the formula, and voila, I would have it.

I referenced and cross referenced. I took one word from column A and a suffix from column B, and I was so pleased with myself. I typed the name into the spreadsheet, checked it into Perforce, and with the next build it was in the game.

The nightly play test started on time, and this is what everyone in the company saw flashed across their entire screen in big bold letters as they crossed the zone boundary line and stepped into the town the first time:

LAGBOUROUGH.

That’s right. I named a town in an MMO Lagbourough.

The programmers all thought I was making fun of them for how the game was performing. And as you can imagine, I was not the most popular person in the company at that particular point in time. Fortunately, making a change was as simple as opening the spreadsheet and replacing the offending name with something more appropriate. In the end, that particular town was renamed a total of five times—not because each successive name was a bad as its first, but because the game world changed significantly around it. And with each makeover, the town outgrew its previous name. Eventually, we shipped the game with that town being called Lion’s Arch.

What can be learned from this?

Well, first off, the details are important, especially names. Players are smart. In addition to being early adopters and generally on the cutting edge of technology, MMO players like a challenge. Oftentimes, they play games because static media doesn’t, obviously, provide the same level of interactivity and therefore isn’t as challenging. Players actually pay attention to the details, and as such, they aren’t going to miss subtle innuendo (or what amounts here, in my example, to simple stupidity). If you make a mistake or try to drop a reference that you think is going to get past your audience, it will get caught.

Additionally, names should be easy to pronounce and recognize. Nobody wants to have to sound out something that they can’t read. Names with too many X’s or Z’s, or that go on without any vowels, or anything with apostrophizes in it—these should be revised. Names can greatly impact the emotional attachment and overall feeling for a character or town. They should be considered and evaluated long and hard before they are put into print or in a game.

And finally, the biggest thing here to keep in mind is that when you are making a multi-million dollar game with a staff of a hundred or more people, there are going to be some mistakes made, and not everything works smoothly. Sometimes these mistakes make it into the live environment. Someday I suspect there will be enough of these sorts of stories that we’ll be able to put together an entire book. Maybe we can release it as a premium feature in the next collector’s edition box.

We’ll call it, “Inside the Sausage Casing: The Making of an MMO.”

Cale Roughstar · May 02, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

I lol'ed

Though apparently the "simple names" theme died in factions. Xauquang Skyway, Bukdek Byway, Tahnakki Temple, Naphui Quarter? How the hell am I supposed to pronounce those?

The guy below me took my post seriously?

DBZVelena · May 02, 2009, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cale Roughstar

I lol'ed

Though apparently the "simple names" theme died in factions. Xauquang Skyway, Bukdek Byway, Tahnakki Temple, Naphui Quarter? How the hell am I supposed to pronounce those?

I would say the people in asia have the same problem with Lions arch as you have with Xauquang Skyway.
I think since Factions is suppoced to have an asian feel, the town names reflect that. And even though we usually spell town names wrong in factions people still get which town we mean because all the names are very different from eachother.

Anyway, I loved this read and yea thats great info for the Lore department.

Anduin · May 02, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBZVelena

I would say the people in asia have the same problem with Lions arch as you have with Xauquang Skyway.
I think since Factions is suppoced to have an asian feel, the town names reflect that. And even though we usually spell town names wrong in factions people still get which town we mean because all the names are very different from eachother.

Anyway, I loved this read and yea thats great info for the Lore department.

Though the Luxon areas use a lot of Greek words. I wonder why they did that? (not sarcastic, does anyone know?)

Zodiac Meteor · May 02, 2009, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Yes, they have Greek words, but also does some Titan Bosses, Hydra bosses etc.

FoxBat · May 02, 2009, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBZVelena

I would say the people in asia have the same problem with Lions arch as you have with Xauquang Skyway.

They can easily translate to the local language rather than transliterating "lion's arch" - for example, the Spanish is "Arco Del Leon" - that's the point of simple names. Japanese did transliterate because foreign words are "cool" and widely used, maybe someone who reads chinese can comment on that.

But yes, please go back to simple names in GW2, spelling them in searches is a nightmare, and as mentioned, it can be made simple/easy for everyone's language.

Longasc · May 02, 2009, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Dorknars, Camp Rangor... but people could spell LA and Ascalon.

Jess Lebow should have told a bit more.

We hear so little about Jeff Grubb and the other writers, Bobby Stein or this other one is the guy behind the tons of pop culture references IIRC, and I would like to encourage them to think a bit harder than referencing to ideas of others too often.

Ree Soesbee wrote the article for PCGamer about GW2 that sounded so interesting, btw.

Earth · May 02, 2009, 09:34 PM // 21:34

I never had any problems with Faction names tbh...

But that's a nice find Fril, I'd like to see the Devs faces when they stepped into the town

Arduin · May 02, 2009, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Nice find! Lagbourough, hah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Yes, they have Greek words, but also does some Titan Bosses, Hydra bosses etc.

Titans have Latin names.

RotteN · May 02, 2009, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Yes, they have Greek words, but also does some Titan Bosses, Hydra bosses etc.

Aren't Hydra Bosses all jibberish ?

I don't really see any greek link in stuff like Brol Migo Hinga, Chak Hack Schawack, Graf Wask Derg, Jewk Swem Pleg, Nayl Klaw Tuthan, Rept Parn Freg, Rwek Khawl Mawl, Sheg Zamn Mada or Vrek Qwek Spek.

And the titan names are, as already mentioned, indeed based on Latin and not Greek.

As for the OP: i can indeed see the reasoning behind the original name, but it is indeed not a smart choice of words for an online game

glacialphoenix · May 02, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

I would say the people in asia have the same problem with Lions arch as you have with Xauquang Skyway.

I can tell you straight off that I have more trouble with Xaquang Skyway than I have with Lion's Arch. (I can believe the naming a major trading city after a lion, yes.) I can't, however, figure out how Xaquang can be pronounced in Mandarin. I even went to check the Chinese translation, and... it still doesn't work for me.

Helix Dreadlock · May 03, 2009, 12:00 AM // 00:00

As Earth said, I've had no problems with Factions, it was my maiden original campaign. I have to correct others for it xD And as for Hydras and Greek names, I can't see why not. Hydras are defined as creatures of Greek Mythology with 3 heads wich regenerate after the hero decapitates it. (Yes, I actually read the history textbooks). As for Nayl Klaw Tuthan it is supposed to be a representative to the phrase "Nail Claw and Tooth". I believe the 3 seperate words are to represent the basic amount of heads the Hydra is brought into the world with.

Qing Guang · May 03, 2009, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Really, the Canthan names aren't that hard to pronounce... though I keep getting hung up whenever they put a "u" after a "q", which IIRC doesn't happen in Chinese (correct me if I'm wrong)... I keep wondering if it really is Captain "Kwee-mang" or if they meant it to be Captain Qimang ("Chee-mang). (Then again, lots of people get hung up on my name... THE Q SOUNDS LIKE A CH, PEOPLE!). It's not to make it easier for people in other countries to say, it's to produce a feel - wouldn't it be silly if people from three different continents and eight different countries all had the same types of name?

And yes, I'd say the Hydra names are tough to say sometimes.

glacialphoenix · May 03, 2009, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qing Guang

though I keep getting hung up whenever they put a "u" after a "q", which IIRC doesn't happen in Chinese (correct me if I'm wrong)... I keep wondering if it really is Captain "Kwee-mang" or if they meant it to be Captain Qimang ("Chee-mang). (Then again, lots of people get hung up on my name... THE Q SOUNDS LIKE A CH, PEOPLE!).

And that is my problem with the name Xaquang Skyway. Also, *sympathises.

Black Metal · May 03, 2009, 01:33 AM // 01:33

cute little diatribe. Until he said LA, I thought he was referring to that little town outside presearing Ascalon City (where is this little lake by LA he refers to?)

I'm all for reverting it back to Lagborough, at least for the weekends.

shillo · May 03, 2009, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qing Guang

though I keep getting hung up whenever they put a "u" after a "q", which IIRC doesn't happen in Chinese (correct me if I'm wrong)...

Google yields 165,000,000 hits for 'quang'. It seems (from the first couple of pages) that this is an extremely common syllable in Vietnamese. Guess Cantha is not just China or just Japan

HawkofStorms · May 03, 2009, 03:32 AM // 03:32

An excellent little story.
Although I agree that names have gone down hill in Factions and NF. I used to know every town in Prophecies. I get a lot more confused with the names now. Although that may just be because the world got so big.

Qing Guang · May 03, 2009, 05:52 AM // 05:52

@shillo: Ah, that's funny as I just said in the lore board yesterday that Cantha also had Korean and Vietnamese influences... I should have remembered that.

@HawkofStorms: Yeah, that's probably the world getting bigger. I can't remember the Tyrian cities or Elonian mishes for the life of me, but I can name every little landmark in Cantha... because it's where I started.

Karuro · May 03, 2009, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Metal

cute little diatribe. Until he said LA, I thought he was referring to that little town outside presearing Ascalon City (where is this little lake by LA he refers to?)

I'm all for reverting it back to Lagborough, at least for the weekends.

I think the vast ocean we see in Lion's Arch was once that little lake ^^"

Longasc · May 03, 2009, 01:49 PM // 13:49

The North Kryta Province has a rather large lake.